PostHeaderIcon Saltwater into fire

You really have to see this to believe it. No that’s likely not good enough. You’ll have to get your own low energy radio wave machine and toast some salt water yourself. That’s what’s John Kanzius has done. The Sanibel Island Florida inventor was looking for a way to desalinate water but instead found a way to burn salt water. According to reports low energy radio waves split the H20 up into hydrogen & oxygen. It looks like The Na & Cl in solution acted as a heat sink or electrolyte . Or anyhow I assume so since the process wouldn’t work on fresh water. Maybe the RF acts as the catalyst as this discussion suggests. See below for the answer. One way or another -something bubbled out of solution. And with a flick of a bic the gases turned to fire.
Anyhow here’s a couple videos.

Salt Water into Fuel
Saltwater into fire 2
Saltwater into fire 3
Saltwater into fire 4

Understand. Electrolysis results in a net loss of energy. ie you put in more energy than you get out. Do not conflate electrolysis with radio waves. Radio waves represent a much smaller energy input.

Small enough to make for a net gain in energy?

For anyone with serious math skills, it should be possible to do a rough–back of the envelope– calculation based on the comments of this article:

Charles Rutkowski placed a test tube filled with ordinary salt water into John Kanzius’ external radio-wave generator.
He then blasted the salt water with 200 watts’ worth of directed radio waves, not quite enough electricity to light three 75-watt light bulbs.
Within seconds, a blue flame erupted from the top of the test tube. It then turned bright white like a blowtorch’s flame and burned for several minutes at about 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit.
“I’ve done this countless times and it still amazes me,” said Rutkowski, general manager of Industrial Sales and Manufacturing, the Millcreek company that builds Kanzius’ generators.

So what’s going on?

For starters, here’s a simple experiment that shows that salt increases many fold the output of hydrogen from electrolysis. (The Kansius experiment does not involve electrolysis but rather Radio Waves).

Here is a second bit of fun with a microwave that shows that the microwave can turn a flame off and on at will and make the flame burn high & hot. You can see in Kansius’s salt water burning video how Kansius turns the high hot fire off and on at will. The suggestion here is that the radio waves are both splitting the water and then further exciting the flames. As well, I’m suggesting that the process is analogous to that in a microwave oven.

Update:I talked on the phone to one of the scientists Ed Apsega at APV Engineering in Akron Oh. They tested John Kanzius process. I was told the flame burned at more than 1700 degrees Celcius or 3000 degrees Farenheit. (Its not clear to me currently as to whether the energy yield is more or less than 1:1. Why? Well the APV engineering scientist Ed Apsega said the energy yield was much more than 2:1 and later I talked to John Kanzius–he said the energy yield was less than 1:1.) The yellow flame was the glass burning. (The flame started out clear.) The temperature inches away from the flame was room temperature. Tests afterwards showed that the water was reduced and the mineral content by percent increased in the water. The Na in the water decreased but not significantly. John Kanzius would like government money for his salt water project so that he can work on his cure for cancer. I’ve been promised a follow up email/phone call from Kanzius so that he can provide a contact number/email that I can post. So check back.Update: Ok I talked with John Kanzius. He’s ok with being reached at johnkanzius (at) aol.com. There are three machines available. It would be helpful if someone qualified checked this thing out.

According to this site:

June 01, 2007

“Regarding moving this forward, I want to see what are the best results we can achieve with joules in vs joules out. A chemist in Houston whom I know is going to be doing a couple of things for me this weekend.” — John Kanzius (June 01, 2007)

“What burns at a temperature of over 1700 C? [Knowing the answer to that question] might take some of the guess work out of the equation.” (May 29, 2007)

June 06, 2007

John Kanzius writes:

“Since it appears we now have now achieved more than unity, I am going to do an embargo on releasing all further information.

“Actually there are smart individuals who have posted on different web sited and actually have a pretty good idea of what is happening.”

……………….

So why is the flame so high? Why doesn’t the wick burn? Why does the temperature so near to the flame revert back to room temperature? (See below.) The answer to all three questions seems to be that the flame shown in the video is an electrical fire. Some are calling it a plasma fire.

Slide Three of this slide show has a still of the Therm Med LLC External RF System. The machine is proprietary radio frequency machine. You’ll have to check with John Kanzius about that. See above.It appears that the secret sauce in the process is in the RF frequency. The frequency itself is the catalyst.
Consider this patent on the process: (It looks like somehow the radio waves immitate platinum.)

Catalytic simulation using radio frequency waves

Document Type and Number:

United States Patent 6217712

Link to this page:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6217712.html

Abstract:

The invention relates to a method of using radio frequency waves to artificially create catalytic action in a catalyst-free chemical reaction within a substance. To mimic or imitate the catalyst, radio frequency waves are transmitted through the substance at a signal strength sufficient to electronically reproduce the effect of the physical presence of a selected catalyst. The radio frequency waves have a selected transmission frequency substantially equal to a catalyst signal frequency of the selected catalyst, defined as the signal frequency determined by nuclear magnetic resonance of the selected catalyst. It is commonplace to use nuclear magnetic resonance to identify elements within a substance and the signal frequencies of various elements (including catalysts) are listed in widely published tables. To date, the mechanism by which catalysts bring about chemical reactions has been unknown. The inventor has recognised that the physical presence of a catalyst brings about a chemical reaction due to the emission of low intensity radio frequency waves from the catalyst with the signal frequency that is emitted being the signal frequency of the catalyst that is commonly determined by nuclear magnetic resonance. Therefore, the invention can be used to eliminate the need for expensive metallic catalysts, such as platinum. The invention electronically reproduces the effect of the physical presence of a catalyst by transmission of a radio frequency wave with a signal frequency equal to that signal frequency emitted by the catalyst and as determined by nuclear magnetic resonance of the catalyst.

Here is a list of his patents related to the process.

more on patents:

download PDF (Systems and methods for combined RF-induced hyperthermia and radioimmunotherapy, 2005)

download PDF (Enhanced systems and methods for RF-induced hyperthermia II, 2006)

European Patent Office (Kanzius patents)

WIPO.int (Kanzius patents)

European Patent Office RASBACH KLAUS (DE) This is an expired patent. I believe this gives the key.

In resonance-based generation of H2 and O2 from water, using a hypersonic generator of suitable frequency, the resonance frequency (fO) can be that corresp. to the distance (d) between the nucleus of the O atoms and its outer electron shell or the proton. fO can be calculated approx. from the formula: fO = c/(pi.d), where c= the speed of sound in water and pi= the Ludolf’s no). USE/ADVANTAGE – The H2 can be used as fuel in power stations or in hydrogenation (hardening fat), synthesis of petrol, MeOH and NH3, redn in metallurgy, in welding etc. The O2 can also be used for technical and other purposes. The overall efficiency of the process is much higher than usual and the process is more friendly to the environment.

According to this poster:

“Perhaps if we could find a substance with a NMR frequency of 13.56 mhz then that is our catalyst…”. Now if you can just turn that around a bit–you might get that the frequency that the machine is imitating is that produced by platinum or 13.56 mhz.

According to this poster:

From what I understand of this, (1) day reading, is that every metal has a moleculer frequency. The patent says that these numbers are readily available.

Next, you take your RF signal generator and set it to that frequency and put it into the solution according to the patent.

The solution “feels” the catalyst. If it had a brain it would be tricked into thinking it is seeing that particular metal.

My first thought is KOH in water and Aluminum. Replace the Aluminum with the molecular resonant frequency of the Aluminum metal and you have the KOH water mixture thinking you just put in AL. And here comes Hydrogen!! Can you say,”unbelievable!” Where has this tech been?!

Here are additional links:

Water into fuel?

Fla. Man Invents Machine To Turn Water Into Fire

How John Kanzius’ push to cure cancer may have discovered alternate fuel

Here’s a google search for Kanzius+burn+water.

“On our way to try to do desalinization, we came up with something that burns, and it looks in this case that salt water perhaps could be used as a fuel to replace the carbon footsteps that we’ve been using all these years, i.e., fossil fuels,” Kanzius said.

If it’s for real, the possible ramifications of the discovery are almost mind-boggling, as cars could be fueled by salt water instead of gasoline, hydroelectric plants could be built along the shore, and homes could be heated without worrying about supplies of oil.

“It doesn’t have to be ocean salt water,” Kanzius said. “It burns just as well when we add salt to tap water.”

Thus far, Kanzius’ work has not received extensive national publicity, but has been featured on several local television news programs, including WPBF-TV in West Palm Beach, Fla., WSEE-TV in Erie, Pa., and WKYC-TV in Cleveland. “We discovered that if you use a piece of paper towel as a wick, it lights every single time and you can start it and stop it at will by turning the radio waves on and off,” Kanzius told the Times-News as he watched a test tube of salt water burn.

“And look, the paper itself doesn’t burn,” he added. “Well, it burns but the paper is not consumed.”

Kanzius said he hasn’t decided whether to share his fuel discovery with government or private business, though he’d prefer a federal grant to develop it.

uh…. can someone fit this man’s work into their budget? I’m sure this could be worked around for water desalination/transport purposes.

Another but dissimilar process was announced recently where an aluminum-gallium alloy acted as the catalyst: (ie no RF was needed to make the reaction. But you might be able to tune radio wave to immitate the RF of aluminum-gallium)

I have blogged about working on desalination catalysts before but not really from the angle approached here. You can do a quick search on google for RF +deposition OR RF “water splitting” OR RF semiconductor. It looks like the semiconductor industry uses RF energy to split gas molecules, then recombines them to deposit chemical films onto wafers. According to this poster

I’ve seen another piece of equipment which uses magnetic
fields to direct ionized gases. I imagine this might be one method to
harvest the hydrogen before it has a chance to recombine with oxygen.

You might also tune RF to settle Na & Cl ions out of solution. Just a thought.

73 Responses to “Saltwater into fire”

  • Chris Wilson says:

    in the automtive world there is a saying,”there is no replacement for displacement” and that is what i’m referring to above.saying that the process has a efficiency ratio of 1:1 or 2:1 is like basing the efficiency of a forest fire on the energy of the match that ignites it.to me this is the molecular eqivalent of a nuclear exlplosion,reason being that i happen to know that water breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen at 2000 degrees and the flame above the test tube is much hotter than that.

  • Maxc says:

    See below for Nuclear magnetic Resonance particularly oxygen.

    http://www.chem.tamu.edu/services/NMR/periodic/index.shtml

  • nick2 says:

    Well there’s a good answer. The Nuclear Magnetic Resonance for Oxygen is 13.556.

  • nick2 says:

    The NMR FREQ. AT 23.487 kG. for Platinum is 21.462.

    So why is platinum used as a catalyst in fuel cells

    NMR FREQ. AT 23.487 kG. for nickel is 8.936

    So why is nickel used as a catalyst in steam reforming.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_reforming

  • nick2 says:

    I wonder if you would increase efficiencies if you pitched two frequencies at the saltwater. The NMR for Oxygen is 13.556. The second frequency would be the NMR for Hydrogen at 100 (NMR FREQ.AT 23.487 kG.)

    Then ratchet up the concentration of salt in the water.

  • nick2 says:

    And also make sure that all the radio waves are absorbed and not dissipated.

  • maxc says:

    Anyone can order a 13.5 MHz Oscillator and hook it up to a battery to produce radio waves of that frequency. These are the same frequencies used in RF devices. In fact they’re commonplace now wiith the new type of credt card systems as well as inventory control devices for use with pda’s. Some hair removal devices also operate at the same frequency and can injure skin. Seems easy to re-produce using a number of devices.

    Let me know if you want to know where to order thistype of oscillator.

  • nick2 says:

    is there a place you can order on the cheap.

  • nick2 says:

    and that is what i’m referring to above.saying that the process has a efficiency ratio of 1:1 or 2:1 is like basing the efficiency of a forest fire on the energy of the match that ignites it.to me this is the molecular eqivalent of a nuclear exlplosion,reason being that i happen to know that water breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen at 2000 degrees and the flame above the test tube is much hotter than that.
    /////////////
    I like your line of thought. However, when the radio wave is shut down –the fire also stops–so the match to forest-fire analogy doesn’t quite hold.

  • maxc says:

    http://www.mouser.com

    Approx 2.50 with volume discounts.

  • Peter Hochstein says:

    Why doesn’t Kanzius publish the ACTUAL details of the experiement instead of showing us little ‘video bites’? Clearly, the choice of 16.56 Mz as the exciting frequency has NOTHING to do with NMR resonance or any other mumbo jumbo. This frequency is allocated by the FCC as an ISM frequency!

    If anyone wants to try these experiments themselves, purchase a used 16.56 MHz plasma etcher on e-bay. and couple it through a matching network to a coaxial coil [as they do for induction heating]. Alternatively, build a simple, single tube power triode oscillator based on a 3-1000z that could generate the necessary R.F.

    If one watches the Kanzius U tube clip carefully, you’ll notice that the test tube used for the demonstration is not empty before the salt water is added. I’m fairly sure that the dark liquid in the bottom is a dispersion of gold nanoparticles which serve to absorb the RF energy. and dissociate the NaCl electrolyte. Much of Kanzius’ previous work involved the use of gold nanoparticles for inducing hyperthermia [for his cancer research]. I belive that his inadvertent discovery was a result of such earlier experiments.

    There are several ISM frequencies available that might work far better than 16.56 MHz … 27.12 MHz and 40.68 MHz come to mind. In fact, one could probably pick up an old 10-11 meter linear at a flea market and do the experiment at very low cost.

    Several sites on the web offer small samples of gold naoparticles at low cost … so let’s all do the experiments and see what the REAL story is. [I am]

  • nick2 says:

    Here’s a pretty good chemists discussion of the the kanzius effect

    http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/28609695/m/778003727831/p/1

    The take away is that there is a net loss of +137.67 energy lost. (But a lot of the RF has not been used/absorbed. So as is the process is not optimized.)

    NaCl(aq) has a deltaH of -407 kcal/mol

    Inserting into both sides of the equation, since it is spectator you get:

    [(-407) + (191.17)] – [ 2(-258.83) + (-407)] = +379.5

    The combustion stays at -241.83 as there is no NaCl.

    You still end up with +137.67 energy lost.

  • SM says:

    FYI:

    “Kanzius’ friend, Bernard Wise, built Kanzius’ prototype radio-wave generator at his Energy-Onix Broadcast Equipment Co., an AM and FM radio transmitter manufacturer in Vallatie, N.Y. Wise said he built the equipment for free to benefit humanity.

    The 2,000-watt radio-frequency generator, which looks like a squat file cabinet, powers two units on a table in a UPMC lab where testing on rats soon will begin.”

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